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Let's make a song
Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Johan, yeah, lots of n00bs come and post on mondays about starting new team projects.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

I've never seen any other website forum refer to it as the Monday Thread, but surely the same problem exists in any game development community.

Anyway, here's a rough demo of Verse 2.

Over the weekend, I'll supply some raw vocal tracks for you to manipulate and mock at your own discretion.

:o Spoilers Below!!!! :o

Lyrics:

It's Monday, late
In the afternoon.
Just got out of bed
With this awesome idea.

(It's been stuck in my head!)

Let's join our hands,
Do this little dance,
Make us a game.

I'll be the boss,
You'll do as I say!
So write me some code.
You'll get no pay.

(But that's okay.)

It's Monday now,
And we're making a game...
An RPG!

Allegro cee cee... It's totally lame!
Allegro cee cee... You'll get no fame!
Allegro cee cee... Ain't it just a shame
That no one's got a real life?

It's Tuesday now.
Why aren't we done?
I look around,
No one's begun.

(Where is everyone?)

Let's join our hands,
Do this little dance,
Make us a game!

Where'd I go wrong?
I thought I was clear!
I wanted to make
The game of the year.

(I know I can!)

Now I can tell, well,
I should have used...
SDL!

Allegro cee cee... It's totally lame!
Allegro cee cee... You'll get no fame!
Allegro cee cee... Ain't it just a shame
That no one's got a real life?

Solo

Allegro cee cee... It's totally lame!
Allegro cee cee... You'll get no fame!
Allegro cee cee... Ain't it just a shame
That no one's got a real life?

Allegro cee cee... It's totally lame!
Allegro cee cee... You'll get no fame!
Allegro cee cee... Ain't it just a shame
That no one's got a real life?

Pedro Avelar Gontijo
Member #5,372
January 2005
avatar

I activated my squeaky violin and recorded the violin melody and a little solo that could enter right in the beginning of the solo part, before Paul's guitar because it's pure awesomeness and it should definitely end the solo. (I love the duet part, it sounds so sweet it's untrue! Guitars don't sound that good easily, you've got something there)

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兩隻老虎,兩隻老虎,跑得快!

Ron Novy
Member #6,982
March 2006
avatar

Matthew, those lyrics are just perfect... I could auto tune the vocals if you feel like going pro ;)

Yes Paul... That guitar solo! If I didn't know any better I'd say Malmsteen. I mean that 'is' the sound a solo guitar should make ;) BTW I did some EQ on it and tested it in the mix and it must be Malmsteen... So who are you really? Or do you have him tied up in your back room with a guitar wrapped around his neck?

Pedro. That's cool violin... The track clipped a little, but I already fixed that. ;)
I attached a clip of the violin after all that plus a little tuning ;)

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Oh... Bieber! I thought everyone was chanting Beaver... Now it doesn't make any sense at all. :-/

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

Here's the first chorus with new background vocals and no solo voice. It's better not to have same singer in both backgrounds and soloist. Matthew, you could use this snippet for recording the chorus lines. We could use same recording in three first choruses and maybe another for the last chorus (with any change in lyrics or slowdown or gimmick whatever you can think of).

The raw dry background vocals are here:

http://kotisivu.dnainternet.fi/johan25/musik/chorus.wav.zip

It's a stereo track with the voices slightly to the right, a bit apart from each other. And an annoying sounding B in a very high octave due to a lousy iMic. I left it there, maybe Ron has better tools for filtering it out. The two higher parts I sang an octave lower and had Logic Express transpose it up. It still sounds falsetto, but much better than my own falsetto. The third part I sang in right octave.

Seems we have all the needed lyrics here. They turned out to be a success. Even if they tell a kind of an inside thing, the song could be something that advertises this great community. Especially when Matthew himself is the lead singer. The background vocals could have been sung by female voices. Diana, Manjula, Nichole? Are they still with us?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

Pedro Avelar Gontijo
Member #5,372
January 2005
avatar

Ron, thanks, that's better than I would even expect! A shame I couldn't do that myself ;D I'd rather not bother the inhabitants of this house too long with the sound of my squeaky violin.

And at Johan, I fail to see why falsetto is something to be avoided. I think all of the vocals you provided so far sound great.
This might actually sound good after all, it's impressive how we have so much hidden musical talent here. :)

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兩隻老虎,兩隻老虎,跑得快!

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

As I get older, my falsetto gets weaker. When I did that last mix, I got my voice sound like it used to. There's nothing wrong with falsetto, but usually another singer who can sing same pitch with full vocal chords action sounds better than the falsetto voice.

There's musical talent everywhere. But nowadays people don't have time for it anymore. People who don't have music as a profession tend to see themselves as music consumers, not producers.

[edit]
Any progress on that time mechgin song?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

Quote:

I could auto tune the vocals if you feel like going pro

I don't care what is done to my vocals... I can tell they are off. I grew up singing church hymns, and they're about the only things I can sing on tune. :P

Quote:

It's better not to have same singer in both backgrounds and soloist

I agree.

Ron Novy
Member #6,982
March 2006
avatar

Pedro, it really wasn't that bad. I think the little parts that went out of tune were most likely you being a little nervous after hitting record. At least that's what it sounded like to me... It happens to me all the time.

Johan, those vocals sound good how it is... Your right though, transposing vocals or any instrument up even just a few notes means that you lose the natural low end frequencies... It's not something that can be processed back in though... You could always try to mix the unfiltered version (before the transposition) into the background of the filtered one to make it sound a bit more natural. If I had the unfiltered versions both transposed and not I could fix it up even more...

Ok... I'm doing a head count of the tracks I have so far and let me see:

Chorus
Violin Solo
Violin Melody
solo (guitar)
ritmicas (guitar)
2guitars

All I need is the rest of the tracks and there relative start times/beats and I could make a mixdown... And it sounds good so far. I think we have a hit ;D

----
Oh... Bieber! I thought everyone was chanting Beaver... Now it doesn't make any sense at all. :-/

piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
avatar

Quote:

Any progress on that time mechgin song?

I think its on hold until the monday song in finshed.
but your wellcome try and do somtsomethingh it. this is the track so far

http://www.allegro.cc/files/attachment/596473

Quote:

I grew up singing church hymns

I knew it! This is why i hear the potential in your voice.

wow
-------------------------------
i am who you are not am i

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

Well, the raw dry background vocals were not actually raw, they were transposed, that is the two higher voices. I used Logic's Vocal Transformer, which preserves the formants while changing the pitch. It was not the chipmonk transform. I do have the three background voices as separate tracks, in their untransposed unfiltered form. But at some point the two higher voices should be transposed to get the whole chorus idea right.

I thought it could be handy to have more options with the rhythm guitars, so I recorded two times with a steel acoustic the whole song through. I placed them on one stereo wave, far left and far right which usually sounds good for two similar guitars, but they could be narrowed, too. The track starts exactly at bar 2 (where intro starts at 1 and verse at 3). By options I mean you could choose to get the guitars there when Pedro's violin starts, or in the choruses, or anything, or just leave them off. I'm trying some mixing myself, but I haven't placed everything yet. Since we don't have Matthew's clean vocal track yet, there's not that much point. The additional rhythm guitars are here:

http://kotisivu.dnainternet.fi/johan25/musik/ac_guitars.wav.zip (23.7 MB)

I could record the electric bass, but I'm not sure how I should do it. I could play directly to a Logic or Garageband track and maybe put on some electric bass amp simulator. Or I could fetch a real bass amp from school and record with mic.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

Ron Novy
Member #6,982
March 2006
avatar

Yeah the backup vocals sound good... I cleaned up some background noise and fluffy breath noise and it sounds perfect. I think the EQ was on in Media Player and that made it sound different... I've been up-sampling the tracks to 88200/float for the mixing too and I think that made the difference when cleaning them up... I'm still waiting for the guitar tracks to download... My connection seems to be freaking out for some reason...

[edit]
Ah yes.. My connection is back.. I guess I spoke to soon... The rhythm guitars sound freaking awesome... What kind of equipment did you use to record that (mic, pre-amp, DAC, etc.)?

As for bass I'd say do it if you can... I'll have a bass guitar later today so I'll try it out and we can compare... The only thing is I only have a Marshal stack here to play on and not a real bass amp. I could try to play through these PA speakers as it has some 15" speakers, but I've never tryed that ...

----
Oh... Bieber! I thought everyone was chanting Beaver... Now it doesn't make any sense at all. :-/

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

Maybe the very last "Ain't it just a shame...". When it comes four times exactly identically, it might ruin the illusion of a recorded stage performance. (Yes, there are some other things in the production that do that, too, but you get my point).

I recorded the rhythm guitars with a strange Suzuyo Mark 31 steel string guitar with lousy dirty strings, Shure PG58 dynamic, Griffin's iMic USB thing, and my Mac PowerBook with Logic Express. I did nothing to the audio, except the panning the two mono tracks and exporting them to a single stereo wav file. What the Powerbook or Logic does to the audio I don't know.

Once upon a time, very long ago, I think it was the day before yesterday, Matthew said:

By the way, when we are done with this song, we need to make a music video too.

Actually it could be very fun if the video showed how everyone really did the recordings instead of a totally faked situation with some cool musicians playing together. I sang the backgrounds at our kitchen table, while my 9 year old son was looking at some fun stuff on YouTube. He gave some weird looks at me.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

Anomie
Member #9,403
January 2008
avatar

I had to return to this place to demand a cover of Tom Wait's Christmas Card From a Hooker In Minneapolis with Matthew's lyrics.

______________
I am the Lorax. I speak for the trees. I speak for the trees for the trees have no tongues.

Ron Novy
Member #6,982
March 2006
avatar

Quote:

I sang the backgrounds at our kitchen table, while my 9 year old son was looking at some fun stuff on YouTube. He gave some weird looks at me.

:-/>:(:-[:'(???:(:):D;D:-*::):P:o:-X

[edit] Couldn't get the bass today... Darn...

What about the brass instruments, were they ever done with real instruments?

----
Oh... Bieber! I thought everyone was chanting Beaver... Now it doesn't make any sense at all. :-/

Pedro Avelar Gontijo
Member #5,372
January 2005
avatar

listening to Matthew's vocals ahaha, this is sheer greatness :D
And the guitars sound very good too. I can't wait to hear the final mix!

To Ron: that is totally true :P recording with a score: "gotta... get it... right!" / improvising: "ha, this is more fun than I expected!". That explains why the solo sounds a lot better than the verse...

[edit]
Ok, nobody asked for it, but here is Pedro's awesome Chinese violin for your listening pleasure ;D

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兩隻老虎,兩隻老虎,跑得快!

Ron Novy
Member #6,982
March 2006
avatar

Is that someone mowing the lawn in the background? Or is that one of those vibrating beds in a cheap motel? ;D

Cool.

----
Oh... Bieber! I thought everyone was chanting Beaver... Now it doesn't make any sense at all. :-/

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

Quote:

Maybe the very last "Ain't it just a shame...". When it comes four times exactly identically, it might ruin the illusion of a recorded stage performance. (Yes, there are some other things in the production that do that, too, but you get my point).

I'll wait for people to mix stuff together in case the chorus change at the end.

Quote:

Actually it could be very fun if the video showed how everyone really did the recordings instead of a totally faked situation with some cool musicians playing together.

I was just thinking of something like an animation (Flash style) mostly because I think it would be easier to do.

Quote:

What about the brass instruments, were they ever done with real instruments?

http://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/597715/771170#target

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

Never improvise background voices. It sounds terrible when you have something that's supposed to sound like a choir, but it's only one person doing multi track recording, improvising the voices at the studio. Of course, if it's not supposed to sound like a choir, but like one person doing multi track recording, improvising the voices at the studio, then it's ok.

Ron said:

What about the brass instruments, were they ever done with real instruments?

You mean Tobias' horns? Listen to his own recordings! Grupo Azul etc. Would he care to fool around with some stupid synt horns? In a serious production like this?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

Ron Novy
Member #6,982
March 2006
avatar

Oh crap... :o Thanks Matthew. I looked back through the thread and missed that link... I've got it now though.

Quote:

Never improvise background voices. It sounds terrible when you have something that's supposed to sound like a choir, but it's only one person doing multi track recording, improvising the voices at the studio. Of course, if it's not supposed to sound like a choir, but like one person doing multi track recording, improvising the voices at the studio, then it's ok.

Yes. I agree there... Doing multiple tracks of one person only gives you a more natural chorus 'effect', which does sound better then using some kind of digital chorus 'effect', but it's not a means of replacing actual backup singers or an actual choir... I'd just laugh if someone called themselves a choir when they just recorded themselves 20 or so times..

----
Oh... Bieber! I thought everyone was chanting Beaver... Now it doesn't make any sense at all. :-/

jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
avatar

Or you could just use VoiceWorks and dial in the background singers.

You don't deserve my sig.

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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Quote:

You mean Tobias' horns? Listen to his own recordings! Grupo Azul etc. Would he care to fool around with some stupid synt horns?

I wouldn't dare to. The horn parts I posted are as real as it gets. Here's the gear list:
Trumpet: Getzen 300
Trumpet mouthpiece: the one that came with the trumpet
Trombone: Conn Director (from 1985 judging by the serial)
Trombone mouthpiece: Vincent Bach 6 1/2 A
Mic: AKG C519 (third generation of the legendary clip-on)
D/A: TASCAM US-122 L
PC: Custom-built intel core 2 duo system, 4 GB RAM

And to answer the question about where the horn parts go:
Open your favourite audio suite, set the tempo to 120. Put the mixdown at measure 1. Put the horn part at measure 19 (on the first beat). The first horn note will be one 8th before the first beat of measure 20 (the first chorus; the horns follow the backing vocals there).

And does, by any chance, anyone have a recent version with everything in it?

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Me make music: Triofobie
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"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

Maybe Ron has. Otherwise they are all here [the tracks, that is], some very raw, some slightly mixed. One question is, should the solo choruses be extended. As it is now, Paul's guitar fills it all. Would it be too long if we'd double the length? That is, if Tobias would play a trombone solo.

[edit]
My son tried to play the bass part. He got some good stuff there, but then he got a blister. :P Too much plectrum playing, too little fingered playing. I might try the bass part tomorrow.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

Ron Novy
Member #6,982
March 2006
avatar

Maybe I'll have one for you later... I've been working on it between mixes of other songs so it might take some time... It would make things go quicker if I had the start times for all the tracks. I can figure them out myself but I've suddenly come into a bit more work here...

----
Oh... Bieber! I thought everyone was chanting Beaver... Now it doesn't make any sense at all. :-/



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