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| Let's make a song |
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Paul whoknows
Member #5,081
September 2004
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Johan Halmén, Pedro Avelar Gontijo & Ron Novy said: A lot of kind words about my solo.
Thanks guys! glad you liked it! Quote: I thought it could be handy to have more options with the rhythm guitars, so I recorded two times with a steel acoustic the whole song through.
Sounds great! and it has a nice stereo effect which I liked a lot Quote: It would make things go quicker if I had the start times for all the tracks. I used the midi file as reference and all the WAV files I provided begin exactly at the beginning of a measure, so it shouldn't be a problem. However, I don't know how the others did. ____ "The unlimited potential has been replaced by the concrete reality of what I programmed today." - Jordan Mechner. |
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Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001
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I'll try to give some times: My rhythm guitars should start at the very beginning. All these times are according to the setup I have on Logic Express, where I have one emptry bar in the beginning, that's bar 1, then intro starts in bar 2 and the verse in bar 4. I hope I didn't cut any of the sequences from the beginning. The given times should be the time for the actual wave file to start. The music starts some seconds later, depending on how long the silence is. All wavs I've supplied should start at an exact bar start, which should make it a bit easier, if your software counts bars. [edit] [edit] I guess I'll do the recording at home with my Powerbook & Logic. They have shown almost no problems with timing so far. Paul's guitar was perfect timing from beginning to end, as well as Tobias' horns. Only Matthew's tracks made with Audacity might have had some 20-50 ms shifting from beginning to end of the recording. When Matthew sings the beginning ("It's Monday late...") in perfect time, then at "Do this little dance" he's some 30 ms too early. If Ron wants to get into those timing things, he could do it, shifting sections back and forth, but it's not necessary. It might even be that the problems are only in my equipment. How about the drum track, Ron? I haven't done anything to the midi data, just tried different software drums. Would you need a complete wav for them or will you use some of your own software drums? Since we don't seem to get any real drummer here, anyone is free to make a compilation of the drum data into a wav. About Matthew's exclamations ("It's been stuck", "That's okay", "Hey! Where is everyone", "I know I can"), They should be mixed so that they sound either exactly the same as the verse singing, or completely in another room. Imagine a music video, where Matthew sings in the mic. Then, at the exclamations, you see him in a totally different situation. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest. |
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Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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Quote: Imagine a music video, where Matthew sings in the mic. I'd rather not. --- |
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Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001
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It's Tuesday now. Why aren't we done? http://kotisivu.dnainternet.fi/johan25/musik/bass1.wav.zip (14.5 MB) It became a stereo track, my misstake, but it zipped down to almost the size it would have been as a mono track. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest. |
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Ron Novy
Member #6,982
March 2006
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Awesome... I started putting more stuff together last night but I got too tired to finish it... I've got some time now so I'll try and get a quick mix so you can hear it... I can try and run the bass through an amp to get a more amped sound too [edit] One problem with doing collaborations like this is that some consumer and semi-pro equipment have bad clocks that aren't very accurate... Creative cards are usually off by several Hz so even if we all recorded our tracks at 44100Hz the timing may be a bit off. It's usually not that bad when using modern sound cards but there is still something like ~+-1% variation.. If you know exactly how long it should be you could always time stretch the track to the perfect length. If you do that you don't need to preserve pitch either... [edit] OK here is a test mix of the song... I double tracked the rhythm guitar for verse 1 and 2. I put the bass through an amp and mixed a real stereo track from it and basically cleaned up all the tracks and re-sampled them at 48KHz/32-bit for mixing... I left the vocals out for now because some of the tracks become a bit off time the further the song goes along (see last edit). Fixed as much as I could for now though. I put the MIDI stuff into the background so the missing tracks would be there, I just can't mute the individual tracks so there all there.... I've fixed most of the stuff, but I may be away for a few days or so and thought I should leave you with something... It's in no way finished so let me know whats missing... Actually make a list for me if you can. Some of the files had the same names so when I dumped them all into one folder a few may have gone missing. It sounds pretty good so far even though we need some more audio stuff... Solo still sounds good too ---- |
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Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001
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Ough! The bass starts to lagg terribly. But in the last chorus it sounds ok again At 1:08 you could maybe lower the electric rhythm guitar or something to lift up the cool horns. Any kind of variations in the different parts would be good, I think. At 0:47 there's possibly a wrong note in the fiddle. Or it's just sustained, but it might not sound good if the background vocals are there, too. Again, the different chorus parts might gain from variation. Now there's lots of stuff doing the same melody&harmonics there. Perhaps it could grow gradually towards the end. [philosophy_of_the_song] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest. |
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Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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Quote: One problem with doing collaborations like this is that some consumer and semi-pro equipment have bad clocks that aren't very accurate... Creative cards are usually off by several Hz so even if we all recorded our tracks at 44100Hz the timing may be a bit off. It's usually not that bad when using modern sound cards but there is still something like ~+-1% variation.. If you know exactly how long it should be you could always time stretch the track to the perfect length. If you do that you don't need to preserve pitch either... As long as everything is recorded using the same mp3 as a reference, there should be no problem: you play it back 1% faster, but you also record 1% faster. As long as all your equipment uses the same clock source, you're good. It's only when you sync to midi that you get in trouble, and even then you are only doomed if midi and audio use different clock sources. A decent audio workstation will let you choose clock sources. --- |
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Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001
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It's not possible that the mp3 format does some resampling of smaller chunks and maybe loses one ms here, one there? Like some video codecs work only on widths that are multiples of four and converting something to them loses not only information but also the original size. I know wav doesn't lose anything, but I'm not sure of mp3. It loses sound quality, so why couldn't it lose precision in time, too? Don't different computers show jpg images differently, depending on the precision of the CPU/MPU? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest. |
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Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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Quote: why couldn't it lose precision in time, too? Don't different computers show jpg images differently, depending on the precision of the CPU/MPU?
No, and no. MP3 works in the frequency domain, just like jpg; both reduce the amount of information available for the spectrum of a chunk. The size of the chunk, however, is fixed. It has to be, because the transfer functions to and from the frequency domain typically require block sizes that are multiples of two, to allow for certain optimizations. 256 samples remain 256 samples throughout the encoding and decoding process, and with jpg, an 8x8 block keeps its size. --- |
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piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
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Great job Allegro.cc. edit: every sounded great to me on my card. the only thing that was off was the gituar started off time at 00:38 wow |
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Ron Novy
Member #6,982
March 2006
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I'm starting over with some better software/midi tools... This should keep everything in sync. I'm not that familiar with the software, but it should solve all the problems... [edit] Some cards also use different clocks for playback and record which could mess things up even further... ---- |
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Paul whoknows
Member #5,081
September 2004
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Nice work Ron! I really liked how it sounds! and the rhythmic guitars now sounds a lot better! However, the 2-guitars arrangement is placed in the wrong place, and the solo is slightly out of time too. Here I attached a mp3 showing how my tracks should sound. BTW, the midi file I used as reference has a tempo = 120.5, so probably this is the source of confusion, not sure though. ____ "The unlimited potential has been replaced by the concrete reality of what I programmed today." - Jordan Mechner. |
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Ron Novy
Member #6,982
March 2006
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Paul, after reading your post I realized
OK... I think I've got it now... The software I've been using has been rounding the BPM off... 120.5 became 121 etc... ---- |
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Paul whoknows
Member #5,081
September 2004
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If you ask me, using non-integer values to set the tempo is probably one of the worst ideas I can think of. ____ "The unlimited potential has been replaced by the concrete reality of what I programmed today." - Jordan Mechner. |
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Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001
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My guess is that it's my error. I have this old logic Fun on a PC, that has a freaking tempo controll, where you drag with the mouse over the number field and it has some 10 decimals or something. I could have just typed in the tempo to get it exact to 120 (after testing some other tempo), but I'm afraid I just adjusted it to be 120 something. And after that I might myself have used some other player that rounded it to 120. [edit] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest. |
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Ron Novy
Member #6,982
March 2006
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Erg... It was just me ---- |
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Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001
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...mondays. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest. |
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Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Ron Novy
Member #6,982
March 2006
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OK... I'm leaving around 1pm (Pacific time) today and won't be back for a several days. Another thing we should do is make a list of credits so it can be included in the final MP3, OGG, etc... Let me know what needs to change here... I'll start it out: Some of the backup Vocals are loud [edit] Leaving early ---- |
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Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001
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The intro was just something I did out of Mark's quick melody idea. Since it's been there from the beginning, we could keep it, but if someone has a better idea, show it. Could Paul try to replace the midi intro with a real guitar? Either play it as it is or something else. The drumless track sounds promising, otoh it reveals some bad playing here and there (especially in the bass ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest. |
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Paul whoknows
Member #5,081
September 2004
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Well done! I like it a lot! Tobias' brass section really shines in this mix! BTW, who sang the chorus? it sounds truly amazing! Quote: Could Paul try to replace the midi intro with a real guitar? I'll do it. That little melody is just perfect to perform a tapping-lick a la Van Halen. ____ "The unlimited potential has been replaced by the concrete reality of what I programmed today." - Jordan Mechner. |
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piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
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the 1st, 4th vocal samples and the first "game of the year" vocal sample timing sounds a bit off. every thing else sounds cool. wow |
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Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Johan sings the "Allegro cee cee" and everything else is (unfortunately This latest version is promising! |
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lambik
Member #899
January 2001
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Damn, it is starting to sound good |
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Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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Quote: Tobias' brass section really shines in this mix!
More fuel for my ego. I should do this more often. --- |
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I was assuming everything had started at the beginning of a measure or beat, but instead I'm dumb! it was all using SMPTE 24fps... That must be what audacity uses correct? Luckily I was able to change the software to use SMPTE 24fps instead... All is well now 
I've got a mix of the song without the midi instruments in the background... I'll try and mix the midi instruments down, but like I said before it probably won't sound too great. If someone has a better sounding instrument for it then post it and I'll try and get another mix out before I leave...
). I think the violin thing between chorus and following verse (or solo) is actually better than the silly horn thing and explosion.