That statement simply indicated I was discontinuing the discussion with you, Edgar (and it was a simple summary of how I felt). There was no cop out because I simply don't want to continue the discussion (and there's no obligation for me to) for many reasons. I would like to note I find it rather out of place for you to become aggressive and rude, when in other discussions/threads we've participated in (non-religious, admittedly), this was never the case. Evidently I was mistaken.

The hypocrite sling is indeed insulting because I correct my worldview and beliefs when objective and credible information proves otherwise. This is necessary for any consequential thought or experience I have (within some reason, of course*).

You, and much of everyone else (religious or otherwise), can reasonably survive with a worldview built on a foundation of sand and constructed out of straw because you don't have incredibly bizarre and irrational thoughts and experiences haunting you day in and day out caused by some mental illness. If you did, however, you would have a terrible prognosis, because you don't have the means or ability to correct your own behavior. Just like most others.

On the other hand, it's simply not possible in my case. I have to apply a much more strict rational process in my life. For example, I believe there are eldritch beings manipulating certain events in my life for some greater plan. At the same time, I am aware these events are simply coincidences caused by personal attributes (e.g., I gravitate towards darker and obscure media) and observation bias. So when I read "I Feel Sick" series by Vasquez a few months back, I simultaneously believe 1) that the creation of this work was guided by eldritch beings and events in my own life were manipulated so I would eventually read the series so said beings could threaten me, and 2) that it was a complete coincidence caused by my previous exposure to Vasquez's work (Invader Zim on Nickelodeon back in the... 2000s? I think) and that there are no eldritch beings (for many, many reasons).

I can't stress how exhausting, stressful, and even emotionally/mentally painful keeping this fragile balancing act up. How would you feel if you believed hundreds of contradictory beliefs, and were completely aware of the contradictions? Keeping my thoughts and behaviors in order is struggle enough. Sometimes I think I'm doing a good job, except when confronted with contradictory and irrational behaviors/beliefs of people around me who are otherwise able, functional, and normal.

So yes, I do take offense when the very attributes that specifically enable me to function somewhat reasonably in familiar scenarios/situations are removed from my description as a form of insult (I'm not sure of the words or phrasing here, sorry if it's confusing). Because it's not true and it completely removes the daily struggles I face as someone at a gross disadvantage to you or most others.

You and and whoever else can keep up the (admittedly pointless) discussion, but I'd like to clarify that particular portion. There's a difference between a simple, aimless insult (e.g., the majority in this thread) and a targeted attack like that. Most insults are in the former (even insulting my intelligence or lack thereof would be), only a very few are in the latter.

And yes, I'm aware you most probably didn't know how that would affect me. I can't expect people to know, just like I can't be expected to know similar things with others. But that doesn't make it any less upsetting.

*: E.g., keeping certain lights on and having a flashlight handy is simply easier and less stressful than overcoming a constant fear of threatening shadows. The end result is insignificant (and not complying is probably worse).

edit: phrasing.

1 John 2:3-4 (NIV)
We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. Whoever says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.

2 Peter 3:17 (NIV)
Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.

Matthew 7:21-23 (NKJV)
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ and then i will declare to them, ‘i never knew you; depart from me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Romans 2:13 (NIV)
For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

1 John 3:4 (NIV)
Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.

1 John 3:6 (NIV)
No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. no one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

Ecclesiastes 12:13 (NIV)
Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind.

Matthew 19:17 (NIV)
"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."

Luke 16:17 (NIV)
"It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law."

James 1:25 (NIV)
But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.

James 2:17 (NKJV)
Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

1 John 3:21-22 (NIV)
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him.

1 John 5:3 (NIV)
In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. and his commands are not burdensome

And of course, there are many, MANY more I could quote. I don't need to comment on them, they speak for themselves.

@axilmar
Watch the last video you will get your answers in logic

That nicely sums up this entire discussion. Both sides of it.

(I'm pretty sure I may be punished for the next question.)

So Mr. Holmes also existed, doesn't he?

Remember that books, all books, any book, were written by humans. Even if God exists and He dictated that book, it was actually written by humans.

For example: John Smith. He read the Golden Book. And if you believe Moses read the Tablets of the Law, you can't say that John Smith didn't read the Golden Book. Or that Muhammad wasn't inspired by Gabriel to write the Quran.

It's somehow sad to see those two paragraphs together: such conviction alongside such resignation. I'm not sorry I just insulted every other religion, but by all means, of course I accept that this is an individual thing. On the plus side, I suppose it's finally an answer to that question you ignored earlier

I'm no neglecting anything, read my reply again, I didn't say a word, I just quoted the bible. So, you're arguing against the authors who wrote those verses, not me. But from your reply, it is clear you understand what those verses are saying and somehow trying to claim I said it. That is precisely why I didn't comment, I only quoted the bible. You know what it says. It wasn't that said it, so do not try and state I am neglecting anything.

As for it being impossible to obey the law... seems like the bible disagrees with you...

Matthew 5:48 (NIV)
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 19:21 (NIV)
Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

As for the forgiveness of sins, yes, the forgiveness of past sins. Once you are forgiven you are expected to obey the law. Yes, the law cannot save you, that is grace. But grace doesn't negate the need for obedience, that's nonsense! And I already proved it by the clear verses I quoted which tell you to obey it.

Do you plan to ignore those verses which contradict the false doctrines you were taught? You can't pick and choose which verses you wish to obey.

Sorry Edgar, but the following verse pretty much sums it up for me...

1 John 2:3-4 (NIV)
We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. Whoever says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.

You can try dancing your way around the scriptures all day if you wish. You cannot change the meaning of them all. And this one is very clear about anyone that teaches that we do not need to obey the law.

Also...

2 Peter 3:17 (NIV)
Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.

...yes, I am definitely on my guard against the error of the lawless... you cannot cherry pick verses like that. The bible is clear and you are in error.

Where did I say it could? The problem is, I see this by far too many "Christians" to justify grace only, no law, no obedience. And it is usually because they refuse to obey the 4th commandment. You cannot do away with one commandment, so they claim they are all done away with. Or they will claim that it is somehow "Jewish" only (even though the Jews were only 1 tribe out of 12, and Moses was not a Jew, he was a Levite). Plus we have the following verse which sums it up really well...

Ecclesiastes 12:13 (NIV)
Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind.

...We are to 1) Fear God, 2) Keep His commandments and this is the duty of "all mankind" (that means everyone, not only "Jews").

But you are correct, keeping the law alone, does not save us, absolutely not. Grace saves us. But far too many feel that you have to choose one over the other, when BOTH are in effect. Yes grace saves you, but you still have to obey the law. When you are saved your PAST SINS are forgiven, so from then on out you do your best to obey (stop sinning, and sin is law breaking). Can we be perfect, well, certain scriptures seem to say so, but I will admit that not all of us can. I strongly feel that God looks at our motives, if we mess up and didn't mean to, and we turn back to God and ask forgiveness, I feel He will show mercy, but dependant on whether you are honestly trying or not.

Anyhow, if I misunderstood you, my apologies. I just hear the grace only, no law thing so much I guess I may be seeing it where it doesn't exist.

Here's a prophecy that really sums up today's churches...

Ezekiel 22:26 (NIV)
“Her priests do violence to my law and profane my holy things; they do not distinguish between the holy and the common; they teach that there is no difference between the unclean and the clean; and they shut their eyes to the keeping of my Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them.”

Anyhow, God bless.

Check it out, guys! We have two Christians arguing with each other over the contradictions in the Bible. Oddly, they can't comprehend that the Bible is contradictory so they're accusing each other of reading it wrong...

Check it out Christians! We have an aetheist who can't read! There are no contradictions between what I said and what Neil said. Both apply equally.

This remains amusing. Keep it up.

Evolution is the acceleration of destruction.