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Forced into switching to Linux
Oscar Giner
Member #2,207
April 2002
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Well, linux has wipped out an entire hd (corrupted the partition table) because of a bug in parted (it affected several linux distros back in the day).

Oh, and a bug in grub 2 just some months ago made me reinstall windows (fixmbr wasn't enought).

See? there are bad stories in both sides.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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The very crucial difference is that the open source world (Linux, GNU, et. al.) is entirely open so the software can be improved/fixed by anyone competent enough. In Windows, you're at the mercy of a very greedy vendor. Nobody is claiming open source to be bug free. No software is bug free. However, in general, open source seems to stable out much faster and remain stable much longer.

I run both Windows and Linux. I run the former mostly for gaming, but while I'm in a gaming mood (i.e., feel like gaming every night) I run it continuously for months at a time to spare myself the trouble of rebooting. I also run Windows at j0rb as a primary development environment since j0rb insists on investing in Microsoft technologies (if there isn't an allegedly easy button then they don't even understand why I'd be bringing it up). I have plenty of experience running both and overall Linux gives me a much better experience. It isn't Windows though. It isn't designed for complete n00bs NOR Windows users to get around. It's a completely different system and often the CLI is much more complete and more mature than the GUI. That makes complete sense considering how much more complicated GUI programming is; it's a huge waste of effort to develop that interface when the command-line is efficient, clean, and productive. It's a huge waste of resources to make a commonly used UI "idiot-proof" when most users will use it so often that they'll learn memorize it anyway. The pictures drawn on the screen are a lie; underneath the system is still command-line driven.

Long story short, GNU/Linux is easily the better OS, but it does require you to learn to use it. Most people are just lazy: they know Windows and they expect everything to work like Windows and refuse to learn something different, even if it might be better. The things that most people do though don't require any command line access 99% of the time in popular Linux distros (e.g., Fedora or Ubuntu). It's only when you begin to require certain exceptional behavior that you begin to have a need for the command line, but if you require exceptional behavior in Windows then you're fucked anyway. Fuck the CLI because Windows won't bend without tedious binary hacking.

There are still problems. Installing things like Flash could be easier, but that's not the fault of open source; that's the fault of proprietary vendors (e.g., Adobe), which are essentially the same as Microsoft. I think things have improved greatly though. I can't remember if Adobe has an RPM repository for Flash yet, but I know that it's certainly making some effort to make Linux support. So basically the fight is being won. You can see that companies provide support only for Windows when that's what they need to do. If people move over to Linux then they will be forced to provide support for Linux and if a majority of people happen to switch then a majority of resources will go into Linux development on all fronts.

Microsoft effectively got rich and powerful through unethical business practices. They didn't earn their success. They "raped" the planet. In the past few years their ability to tie the planet down though has been slipping and it's become obvious that they can't continue their monopoly anymore. They are being forced to adapt to a more open and free market and so far it doesn't look like they have the ability to cope. It will be interesting to see what they can come up with to stay afloat.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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bamccaig said:

Long story short, GNU/Linux is easily the better OS, but it does require you to learn to use it.

I just disconnected a hard disk I'd just installed Ubuntu on. The reason for installing in the first place was to try to get AMD's CodeAnalyst working correctly. CodeAnalyst did work, after a fashion, but all the Ubuntu "You are a moron, I am a computer, therefore we will do things my way, even though they cover a small subset of possiblities" got to be too much to bear after two days, I disconnected it. I might plug this hard disk back in once in awhile to do some extreme asm optimization every couple of months though.

[EDIT]

Right now, I'm having trouble with a program I'm working on.

  ;arr[y_screen * MAND_WIDTH + x_screen] = 0;
  sub ecx,ecx  ;the '0'
  ;mov edx,[r8+y_screen_xmm0+12]
  times 16 nop
  mov eax,[r8+y_screen_xmm0+12]    ;y_screen
  imul eax,MAND_WIDTH      ; * MAND_WIDTH
  add eax,[r8+x_screen_xmm0+12]    ; + x_screen
  mov [r9+rax*4],ecx    ; = 0, blacken the pixel.  BTW, the rax*4 means sizeof(int)

It crashes on the "mov eax,[r8+y_screen_xmm0+12]" line even though that memory location was accessed without problems before. A core dump says that r8 was correct, and uncommenting the "times 16 nop" (insert 16 nops) changes the location of the crash, and uncommenting the "mov edx,[r8+y_screen_xmm0+12]" works fine, leaving the correct value in edx. The disassembly listing shows it's being assembled correctly. I also tried "mov eax,10" to see what would happen and it crashed on that. As usual, the internet is of no help whatsoever, it'll take time and effort.

[EDIT2]

With the use of the UD2 instruction, I was able to determine that the disassembly had been thrown off by yasm align instructions, I was writing past the end of the buffer in mov [r9+rax*4],ecx

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Sevalecan
Member #4,686
June 2004
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no packaging system is perfect, not even gentoo's which requires constant recompiles.

I didn't say they were. As for packaging systems, I like Gentoo's just because I'm used to it. Sure, it involves a lot of compiling, but that's the price you pay for the functionality and flexibility of it. It's not something that I would however attribute to being a fault of the package manager.

Personally, my favorite package management system aside from that is apt. And I love aptitude. It provides a very nice, functional UI to Debian's apt system. I'd certainly like to see such a front-end for portage or perhaps other distro's systems, for instance; However, I tend to find all others except aptitude somewhat lacking.

TeamTerradactyl: SevalecanDragon: I should shoot you for even CONSIDERING coding like that, but I was ROFLing too hard to stand up. I love it!
My blog about computer nonsense, etc.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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CodeAnalyst did work, after a fashion, but all the Ubuntu "You are a moron, I am a computer, therefore we will do things my way, even though they cover a small subset of possiblities" got to be too much to bear after two days, I disconnected it.

Personally I hate Ubuntu. It seems like an attempt to write a Windows-like UI over top of Linux and in doing so I think it violates the "essence" of Linux. It's a mistake to try to hide the command-line underneath. IF you can write a more efficient GUI for common tasks then by all means do so, but don't try to mask the underlying processes happening. That achieves nothing more than confusing people and wasting developer time. The way computers work shouldn't be a secret. User interfaces aren't about covering up some sacred truth. Ubuntu does have merits and it's not like they don't offer a terminal emulator from the base system (or virtual terminals), but I think they have their priorities somewhat crossed. It's good to get n00bs using Linux, but it's bad if it results in a Windows-like wrapper over Linux.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Here's another example of Windows requiring a reinstall, straight from MS.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9217953/Rootkit_infection_requires_Windows_reinstall_says_Microsoft

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Karadoc ~~
Member #2,749
September 2002
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one of the comments said:

This article needs to be corrected. The source does NOT say you have to reinstall Windows. Here is how to recover from it. This will not force you to reinstall Windows.

"If your system does get infected with Trojan:Win32/Popureb.E, we advise you to fix the MBR and then use a recovery CD to restore your system to a pre-infected state (as sometimes restoring a system may not restore the MBR). To fix the MBR, we advise that you use the System Recovery Console, which supports a command called "fixmbr".

-----------

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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I haven't gotten a CD with windows since the previous millenium. It's always on a space-wasting hidden partition, and installs all the shovelware along with Windows.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Mordredd
Member #5,291
December 2004
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The world isn't changing to Linux. Just a couple nerds on allegro.cc.

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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But allegro.cc wasn't even in existence when Linux was invented! OTOH, neither was 32 bit Windows... :o

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

blargmob
Member #8,356
February 2007
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bamccaig said:

Microsoft effectively got rich and powerful through unethical business practices. They didn't earn their success.

Problem bambam?

Mad that you weren't one of the founders of one of the most popular and successful technology companies on the face of the planet?

Mad that you are too insecure to admit that your time is literally worthless and that is the only reason why you refuse to use working, readily available, commercial software and instead resort to broken, open-source crap that barely works?

Commercial operating systems dominate the consumer PC market and they always will. Open-source technologies on PCs will never be successful. Deal with it.

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"No amount of prayer would have produced the computers you use to spread your nonsense." Arthur Kalliokoski

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Mad that you weren't one of the founders of the most popular and successful technology companies on the face of the planet?

That guy that sells bootleg CD's on the corner is more popular than Best Buy too. Not a fair comparison? Tell me of some technology that Microsoft has, and I'll tell you where they got it. They sure didn't invent it. Well, maybe Clippy...

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

blargmob
Member #8,356
February 2007
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They sure didn't invent it.

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"No amount of prayer would have produced the computers you use to spread your nonsense." Arthur Kalliokoski

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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So... you can't give me an example of something useful that Microsoft invented?

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

blargmob
Member #8,356
February 2007
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So... you can't give me an example of something useful that Microsoft invented?

Anybody that actually thinks that the Windows operating system is useless surely lives under a rock.

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"No amount of prayer would have produced the computers you use to spread your nonsense." Arthur Kalliokoski

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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I didn't say they didn't have useful things, I'm just saying they either bought them or stole them instead of inventing them. The things they bought were leveraged from the original theft of DOS.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

blargmob
Member #8,356
February 2007
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I'm just saying they either bought them or stole them.

They saw an opportunity, and seized it, just like anybody should.

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"No amount of prayer would have produced the computers you use to spread your nonsense." Arthur Kalliokoski

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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I'd rather not deal with a company who uses their extortionate profits to hire an army of lawyers to keep them out of jail, and calls everyone else a thief.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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I'd rather not deal with a company who uses their extortionate profits to hire an army of lawyers to keep them out of jail, and calls everyone else a thief.

Well, you've included every single (profit making) company on the planet there then. You better drop out of society and go and live in a commune growing your own wheat.

Neil.
MAME Cabinet Blog / AXL LIBRARY (a games framework) / AXL Documentation and Tutorial

wii:0356-1384-6687-2022, kart:3308-4806-6002. XBOX:chucklepie

blargmob
Member #8,356
February 2007
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I'd rather not deal with a company who uses their extortionate profits to hire an army of lawyers to keep them out of jail, and calls everyone else a thief.

That's besides the point; non sequitur.

Their primary product works and is a very powerful platform that has provided a sound foundation for countless opportunities to people and companies all around the globe. It's the most popular and successful end-user operating system to date and a few nerdy boys on a.cc aren't going to phase anything at all.

You better drop out of society and go and live in a commune growing your own wheat.

I think he already does that ;)

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"No amount of prayer would have produced the computers you use to spread your nonsense." Arthur Kalliokoski

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Well, you've included every single company on the planet there then.

Can you provide references for this? I can provide references for what I say.

604400

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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I haven't the time to research, and I don't really have the motivation. But just at the number of patent disputes that are on-going. Just in the IT world there's Microsoft, Apple, Nokia, motorola....

Neil.
MAME Cabinet Blog / AXL LIBRARY (a games framework) / AXL Documentation and Tutorial

wii:0356-1384-6687-2022, kart:3308-4806-6002. XBOX:chucklepie

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

axilmar
Member #1,204
April 2001

So... you can't give me an example of something useful that Microsoft invented?

MFC. It's useful for showing how not to design a library.

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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Their primary product works and is a very powerful platform that has provided a sound foundation for countless opportunities to people and companies all around the globe. It's the most popular and successful end-user operating system to date and a few nerdy boys on a.cc aren't going to phase anything at all.

Stop being silly. Of course it "works", as in, it often boots without errors, and you can use it to run software and move files around and such. The fact that it's popular and successful doesn't say much about its quality; McDonald's is easily the most popular and successful restaurant chain in the world, but the food is mediocre at best. The rest of what you're saying is mostly meaningless marketing blah - seriously, "sound foundation", "countless opportunities", "around the globe"? Are you a Microsoft marketeer?

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Me make music: Triofobie
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"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén



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