|
The Global Warming Swindle |
gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
|
Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010
|
gnolam said: Relevant new Potholer54 vid Love it! The interview with the "anonymous expert" made my day. Unfortunately, I can't watch the original video ("not available in my country"). So the only thing I could do was to click the link. "World Natural Health Organization". Let's see... Errr... This seems to be rather obscure and religious. No one else seems to know this organization with the pretentious ("World..") name. Definitively no serious science. Ok, I'm not going to go through the troubles of trying to watch the video despite the block. |
Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
|
torhu said: But you, a layperson, choose to believe a few outliers instead. Why would you do that? The people in this video are scientists, they have studied this as well and their opinion is as valid as anyone else's. The thing is, many scientists are against the idea of global warming and if you watched this you would see why. But believe what you wish. There is valid scientific opinion, lots of it, with valid scientific data in this video. I believe in hearing all sides before making up my mind, and on this issue, one side is attacked when they speak out against it, or silenced. Believe what you wish, it's a free country (so far anyhow). If you took the time to watch this, you would see why I think this is a good video, not some amateur conspiracy video. Arthur Kalliokoski said: Neil, you really need to get on the bandwagon, all the cool kids are doing it!
You may have noticed by now that I don't particularly like bandwagons. Quote: you old codger... And proud of it. Looking forward to getting older and more... codgerish. Anyhow, I post a serious video and nobody is interested, even though much of the points it brings up are valid, but look, a funny video!!! Wow.... you would think I would learn my lesson about posting in Off-Topic by now. --- |
Ben Delacob
Member #6,141
August 2005
|
Okay. I watched it. The only thing interesting or informative to me was Margarete Thatcher's political role. I can dissect the arguments made but I really don't understand how you can believe this trash. This is not what people who believe in man-made global warming generally say. If you don't spot straw man argument after straw man argument, you need to learn to watch actual arguments made from people who don't clearly believe your "side". While we're mentioning Venus, and the movie/ video is mentioning CO2 in the upper atmosphere and how "all the models" ... "every one of them" say that the upper atmosphere should be hotter from the warming. Well, Venus has a cold upper atmosphere and this effect, applied to earth with global warming, has been predicted since 1989, if not earlier. The troposphere gets cooler as elevation rises. This is not at all surprising in an environment high in CO2. Bring up any other point made by the video. __________________________________ |
Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010
|
If you don't mind, Ben Delacob, please be so nice as to tell me: is the scene with the "anonymous expert" who only appears as a silhouette part of this video? |
Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
|
{"name":"63069410.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/7\/9\/79762fc059180356329507a711d45074.jpg","w":400,"h":400,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/7\/9\/79762fc059180356329507a711d45074"} {"name":"778504a98ae6db2843b9a151d9d67d3d.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/2\/d2fbff31e5b3469a9da0427f6a25cdec.jpg","w":540,"h":285,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/2\/d2fbff31e5b3469a9da0427f6a25cdec"} -----sig: |
Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
|
Sen. Inhofe of Oklahoma helps explain the politics behind global warming Global warming is accelerating! And here's another old codger who doubts the hysteria, a bit more prestigious than Neil and I are. They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010
|
Wikipedia said: Dyson agrees that anthropogenic global warming exists
|
Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
|
Even in the video, he says global warming is a problem, but his point was it's not the end of the world like so many Chicken Little's make it out to be. Other problems are more pressing. For instance, here's what an Arabic TV show thinks of Obama's statement that "Climate Change is the Greatest Threat" They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
Striker
Member #10,701
February 2009
|
Funny, with the biceps. These Arabs are not completely stupid.
|
Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
|
Striker said: Funny, with the biceps Well, I'd never seen that, so I had to google for it. All I could find were variations on one clip where he was "lifting weights" while he was wearing a sweatsuit so I couldn't actually see his biceps. However, the sweatsuit outline seemed to indicate his arms were pencil-thin. What I mostly noticed was the weird routines he was doing, never seen those before. Maybe he read some blog on "how to work out" 50 times, but his sloppy form says to me that this was his approximately his third attempt at lifting weights ever. I'd say this is more indicative of his athletic prowess. I can do way better than that, and I only played softball when required in physical education. OTOH, I was in an awful lot of snowball fights. They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
Striker
Member #10,701
February 2009
|
Ben Delacob
Member #6,141
August 2005
|
I was a bit harsh on the original video, since it did do a good job on stressing how big an impact sun variations have. Still, our effect is significant. Think of it like putting on a T-shirt and standing outside. Yes, it will be cold when night comes and hot in the day but that doesn't mean the shirt isn't important. At 25:20 in the original video, talking about a 1991 study, shows data that cuts off at 1980. Let's look at the rest of that trend: {"name":"609643","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/5\/4\/54ba8896ee45615c2042389741d4ea02.png","w":720,"h":540,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/5\/4\/54ba8896ee45615c2042389741d4ea02"} It's also clear CO2 is over-represented as a factor. I suspect the recent mitigation is due to the sinking of heat into the oceans, the melting of polar ice and, more importantly, permafrost. These won't last forever but the primary effects might not be seen during our lives. Also, Freeman Dyson's probably on to something when he talks about farming techniques. What's the point of the Arabic clip with the translation changed? __________________________________ |
Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
|
Ben Delacob, while I disagree with you, I do wish to thank you for an intelligent, well thought out response. I am more likely to look into anything you say just for being decent about it than anyone else. At least you look at both sides and then make up your mind, which is what I think everyone should do. The thing is, CO2 is not a pollutant. We produce it all the time by simply breathing, so I am not convinced that the small amounts we produce has that big of an effect. I think the video made a really good point about the global temperature getting warmer in the 1940s when the industrial revolution was just getting started and not contributing much pollution at all, and then later on temperatures dropped after the industrial revolution got off the ground and we were producing a lot, yet it got cooler! I grew up in the 1970s and believe me, it was not getting warmer then! We had snow drifts that covered my school roof at the time. The real damage that is being done is to poor countries who cannot afford modern technology, like they pointed out in Africa, that was an aspect I had never thought about before. --- |
torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
|
So, yeah. Some light reading. |
Erin Maus
Member #7,537
July 2006
|
We are not producing a "small" amount of CO2 unnaturally. All the oil and coal in the world is from hundreds of millions of years of decomposed plant material that decreased the prehistoric levels of CO2. They would never have been re-introduced into the atmosphere naturally. As we burn them, we are introducing greenhouse gases that will destabilize the environment at a rate that is unprecedented. And CO2 is not a typical pollutant in some sense, sure, but that's not what's being argued. It is a greenhouse gas. Again, Venus has an atmosphere largely ('96%', like the exact number makes a difference ) of CO2. It is hotter than mercury, which is considerably closer to the sun. Gee, I wonder why. Increased levels of CO2 also pose a problem in the oceans. The ocean has warmed considerably, which has allowed the atmosphere to remain cooler. And warming the ocean is no small feat: the amount of energy required is incredible. It's similar to the power of a hurricane. It requires far more energy to maintain a hurricane than we will use in energy for everything man-made a year, and hurricanes are tiny compared to the ocean. --- |
Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010
|
Neil Roy said: I grew up in the 1970s and believe me, it was not getting warmer then! We had snow drifts that covered my school roof at the time. Your school roof's temperature != global average temperature. That's purely anecdotal and has no scientific meaning whatsoever. Quote: We produce it all the time by simply breathing, so I am not convinced that the small amounts we produce has that big of an effect. You do know that your (indirect) use of fossil fuels way exceeds the CO2 you emit by breathing? Quote: in the 1940s when the industrial revolution was just getting started Err, that's about 90-190 years too late. But you're right in so far as the use of fossil fuels probably wasn't that significant before. |
Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
|
Polybios said: Your school roof's temperature Yeah.... Global Warming is a misnomer/straw man. It's Climate Change. One area could get cold as hell, but that doesn't mean the world is getting cooler. The climate system doesn't work that way. -----sig: |
Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
|
{"name":"al_gore_climate_change-game-.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/d\/dd199d3dbfe89180fb4bb8a1ef9ff48f.jpg","w":525,"h":389,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/d\/dd199d3dbfe89180fb4bb8a1ef9ff48f"} They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
|
I'll absolutely say that Al Gore, and Green Energy have tons of exaggerated claims to make money. But just because someone exploits the truth for financial gain doesn't mean the truth is invalidated. -----sig: |
Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
|
Chris Katko said: the truth I suppose you'll all find out, by and by. Hope it turns out well. They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
|
I'd almost say Global Warming is a gigantic red herring. Pollution in general is damaging to our society, our lives, our children. If we clean up our society and stomp dumping waste into our rivers--even if global warming is false--we're still going to benefit greatly. Is lower cancer rates and lower child birth defects too small of a benefit to care about? A couple of weeks ago I went on a trip across NC and SC. I ended up at a dye plant vendor where they take textiles and color them. You know what they do? They literally dump everything into the city's sewage system. All chemicals. Thinning agents, dye, binding agents, cleaners. Everything. They "buffer" it in a gigantic water tower so that it fills up throughout the day but only injects as much as they are allowed to by hour, per city regulation. I get called a monster for letting some drops of car oil leak into my grass, but these guys are pumping thousands of gallons of the same stuff into our waters every day. And they weren't even a big company! Less than 100 employees! How the hell is that legal? -----sig: |
raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010
|
I'll agree that pollution is a proven problem that needs to be resolved, as long as it can be agreed that CO2 is not pollution. |
Erin Maus
Member #7,537
July 2006
|
Climate change skeptics remind me of anti-vaxxers. There's overwhelming evidence of anthropogenic climate change, but because a handful of research either suggest less dramatic changes or outright deny the effects, that's the truth and the rest is a giant conspiracy! Oooooh. I mean, seriously. I have a hard time dealing with irrational thoughts and behaviors, but given enough thought and willpower I understand that these same thoughts and behaviors are indeed irrational. Kind of like an extreme phobia. But to willingly deceive yourself, that's something. --- |
raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010
|
And some other people act like alarmists and opportunistic green industry vultures. When the science is "settled" and refined enough to be agreed upon by the rest of the natural sciences, then maybe progress can be made. |
|
|